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 Are the Seraphim of the Bible Really Dragons? View next topic
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draconic chronichler

Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:08 am  Reply with quoteBack to top

Hi, all, I stumbled on your forum by accident, and thought you may all be interested in this as it deals with dragons. I have pasted part of a discussion I had on a Christian theology forum that should explain a bit about it. I have researched this subject for many years, and will have a very comprehensive book out about it released very soon now.

The Bible is very clear that Seraphim cherubim and Destroyers are "Creatures", and not human-like angels. No angel in the original Bible has wings. They look exactly like young men and are mistaken for men. The winged creatures of the Bible are "fiery flying serpents" as their name in Hebrew plainly states. Dragons are the far older and more important of the two types of creatures. Angels have only existed since the evolution of mankind, to serve as messengers for obvious reasons. If a monsterous dragon came to the Virgen mary to tell her she was carrying the Son of God, whe would be so terrified she would probably have a miscarriage. The dragons are not messengers, they are the heavenly creatures of retribution, and this is why blood was placed on the lintels of the Isrealite houses in Egypt. So the dragons would smell the blood on that dark night and "pass over". All of this makes no sense if we imagine the first born were killed by a plague, and how could a plague be so selective? In fact some ancient Jewish scriptures not in the main Bible plainly state that the dragon Satan, led the destroyers on this mission. Remember that the below commentary is not directed to you. And the information below, is just "the tip of the iceberg" of all the information that is contained in the book.

Though Christians who don't like the idea of reptilian entities being the highest heavenly servants have sought to "play scrabble" with words in the Bible and change their meanings, the Seraphim cannot be winged serpent/dragons in one verse and winged humanoid "sunday school/cartoon angels" in another. The Israeli army calls their AH64 Attack Helicopter the Seraph, because of its clear allusion to a heavenly, fire spewing dragon, even to the point of painting a winged dragon Seraph on the fuselage. Why? Because they actually understand the Hebrew language, and what the word Serpah really means, unlike most Christians. Even if you ignore the original Hebrew meaning of this word, the ancient, contemporary Egyptians ALSO called a frightening winged dragon a "Seraph", and in one Egyptian poem, it is a fiery RED dragon. And for this there can be no doubt because of the hieroglyph of the seraph is a quadrepedal winged dragon.

The creatures sent by God to punish the Israelites in the desert were winged reptiles, and Jesus acknowledges this, and there is even a probable depiction of the bronze serpent-dragon of Moses, a replica of the heavenly Seraphim, on a bowl thought to be looted from Solomon's temple. Ancient Jews and Christians both understood this for we see winged serpents or dragons as heavenly servants in their art and literature, even as the Covering Cherubs that flank the throne of God. The Persians connected the Jews with dragons to such a degree that Zoroastrian literature claims that the God of the bible is actually a dragon! Jewish scriptures written after the Bible state God sent a dragon to devour a particularly oppressive Perisan governor who persecuted to the Jews of that land.

Why would it surprise you that a speaking dragon would be an unsuitable creature to report man's inequities to God, and more importantly, to exact retribution as we see in Job, and in "dragon legends" around the entire world.
How do you expect angels to get to earth in the first place, on flying saucers? There is no Biblical evidence that angels have wings, they look identical to normal humans. And as you rightly pointed out, even God rides on the back of a fire spewing, Cherub-dragon to visit Earth, and in ancient and medieval accounts of angels they are sometimes riding on the backs of dragons, probably because the ancient writers all knew angels have no wings and cannot fly. So it is only logical that Satan is a winged dragon, the perfect creature to go to and fro from heaven to earth, and also inflict heavenly retribution.

And how much evidence is there for people actually seeing winged humanoid angels? Virtually none, yet every human culture reports seeing dragons in their skies, and sometimes destroying/devouring humans as in the Bible and other Judao-Chritian scripture. These are probably all, the Biblical Cherubim, Seraphim and Destroyers, which in earlier times may have been free to fly about the earth on heavenly errands, and only in more modern times have been ordered to be more covert in their activities (though they are still seen every year, only now called dinosaurs and sea serpents.)

So wouldn't a winged creature make more sense? And doesn't a serpent/dragon form fit the description of Satan in the ONLY descriptions of him?

And as to the the verse about Satan and the disciples, it says nothing about "sifting". It plainly states that he sought to "devour them like a hungry lion". It could not be stated more plainly. But this is not to say they are not "sifted" first. For also like you say, Satan cannot harm anyone without God's permission, BUT if he can prove to God that these men are blasphemers, God would allow the dragon to consume them. The Apocolypse of Baruch specifically states this is the purpose of the heavenly dragons, to consume the wicked and sinful, and the "dragons" in other ancient cultures do the same thing, so like a talking tree guarding dragon, this is one of the "universal truths" once known to all human cultures before they moved further apart and some of their beliefs became more distorted due to the imperfect, oral traditions that preserved them. So in truth, this was a warning of Jesus of their potential fate, not some silly metaphor. And we can see that it may have been a very well-placed warning, for we see in Revelation that John of Patmos merely copied versions of the Zoroastrian apocolypse, changed the names of Ahriman and Ahura to Satan and Michael, and claimed it was a "divine revelation". Hmmmm, I suspect that one became "dragon bait", just as Jesus prophetically warned.

There can be little doubt that the Sumerian story of Adape and the talking dragon who was "lord of the good tree" , "the Lord of the Earth" and servant to the high God, is the prototype of the later Eden-genesis story, which after centuries of retelling as an oral tradition, turned the dragon from an obedient servant creature of God, into a "deceiver".

In all probability Cherubim, Seraphim and Destroyers are all the same winged reptilian creatures. But these are the names of their specific offices. Cherub dragons are largely guardians, and we see dragons that guard trees in the mythologies all over the world based on the original Biblical story. Dragons are able to speak in the legends of many ancient peoples. When Jesus told his disciples to be as "wise as serpents", he was obviously referring to heavenly serpent-dragons, and not some common snake in the grass with a brain the size of a wheat kernel. You will know that in the Greek, a "drakon" can be a little snake or a big dragon, and to remove all doubt, when BOTH the ancient Jews and Christians transfered the Hebrew scriptures to Greek, the word Seraphim was always translated to Drakones, which has become our modern word "dragon".
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hello Chronicler and welcome!

In Mark Amaru Pinkham's book, "Return of the serpents of wisdom", he validates your thesis and says in no uncertain terms that the seraphim *are* dragons as one of the translations of the word means "firey serpent". From what I recall, the middle-eastern religions also rank the djinn or genies as a rank of angels as well as the satans.

All angels are basically dragons and the roots of christianity are based on draconic/serpent worship if we are to believe Phillip Gardner and Pinkham.

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